We’re finishing up 2020 with our 12th interview as part of the FIRE Community Guest Interview Series! 

For anyone new here, this interview series will cover people within the FIRE community who are on their way to becoming financially independent, have already reached financial independence, or who have retired early. If you are reading this and you are financially independent, retired early, or close to reaching these major financial milestones, please reach out to the Modern Fimily! You can check out the previous FIRE Community Guest Interviews here.


Before we dig in, we have another featured post announcement we wanted to let you know about.  We were honored to be approached by LowestRates.ca to answer the following question “Given the current economic climate, should consumers secure a fixed rate or variable rate mortgage, and why?”  Any guesses on our response?  Check out the post to read on take on this topic 🙂

The coolest part about this was to see our response among some familiar personal finance names that we recognize in this small little space of the world including Mark from My Own Advisor, Bella Wanana, and Kari from Money in your Tea.  Cheers guys!

And as always, this post, along with any other external features can be found on our Guest Appearances page.


And a final quick reminder about The Abundant Family Summit taking place January 2-3, 2021 – ah just a few days away!  Hope you all enjoy this free event.


I am so excited to share this next interview!  Many of you may recognize this next guest as she is very active in the FI space, especially the Canadian FI space.  Today, we have the pleasure of having Chrissy from the blog Eat Sleep Breathe FI and co-host of the Explore FI Canada podcast on to tackle our interview questions.  There is SO much amazing content between her two platforms.  I highly recommend checking them both out.

Chrissy is a stay-at-home mom with two boys living in a high cost of living city (Vancouver, B.C.) with her husband.  She is showcasing that you CAN reach FI in your 40s with kids in a HCOL area on a single incomeChrissy and I are on so many of the same wavelengths it’s pretty crazy (warning this post is long as we are both very detailed oriented).  She has become a great friend and I’m so glad we’ve connected through the FI space to geek out over random investments related conversations.  She truly is passionate about financial independence and genuinely wants to help others along their way.  I’d coin her the nickname “Optimizer Extraordinaire” 🙂 

I hope you appreciate these responses as much as I do and hope you can relate to these guest interviews in some sense to see that there is no cookie-cutter way to FI. If you have any follow up questions or would like to get in touch with Chrissy, please check out her blog, Eat Sleep Breathe FI, or leave a comment on this post. Without further ado, take it away Chrissy!


1. Can you give us a little background of who you are, what you do, and how you became interested in personal finance? How did you discover the idea of financial independence?

I’m a stay-at-home mom and FI blogger/podcaster. I live in Vancouver, BC with my husband, two boys, and our dog Mika. We’re a regular, middle-class family aiming for FI in our 40s (despite living in Canada’s most expensive city)!

I’ve always had a good handle on my money, thanks to my parents. They immigrated from Hong Kong in the 60s, and arrived in Canada with very little. My siblings and I grew up watching them work and save hard to give us a better life… and the lessons stuck.

My mom worked at a bank, where she learned about RRSPs, TFSAs, and investing. She shared her financial knowledge with us, and that’s how I became interested in personal finance.

I discovered financial independence in 2014 when researching how much we needed to retire. I stumbled across Mr. Money Mustache’s The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement and that was it. I was hooked, and down the FI rabbit hole I went!

2. When in your journey did you realize financial independence was actually possible? Was that the original goal at the beginning?

When I discovered MMM, I realized we were already on the path to FI. We just needed to get even more intentional with our saving and spending to speed up our progress.

Pre-MMM, the goal was just to retire at 65—like everyone else. I thought anything younger was just for startup billionaires or other lucky people. But when I found the FIRE community, I discovered that we were a lot closer to financial independence than I’d thought.

Our new goal became retiring in our 40s. (Which really just means my husband gets to retire! As a stay-at-home mom, I’m essentially ‘retired’ already.)

3. To help put things into context, if you are comfortable sharing some numbers, what is your savings rate, FIRE number, net worth, salary, how many hours a week do you work, etc?  

As much as I’d love to share our numbers, this is one area where I try to maintain some privacy… so no juicy details here! However, I will reveal a few things:

  • We save a high percentage of our income.
  • We’re more than 50% to our FIRE number.
  • My husband’s salary started in the mid-five-figures.
  • His salary has slowly grown over the years and is now in the six-figures.
  • He typically works around 50 hours per week.

4. How long have you been working towards financial independence and where are you today?

We’ve been working towards FI since I discovered it in 2014. At that point, we were only 20% of the way. Between 2014 and the end of 2018, we made good progress and reached 70% of the way to FI.

However, in early 2019, we decided to slow down. My husband wanted to buy his dream car and build in some extra padding for future spending. This added a few years to our FI timeline, but we were okay with that. For us, it’s more important to live our best lives now—even if it means slowing our timeline to FI.

I don’t reveal our current progress to FI because, again… privacy! But I will say I’m currently 42 years old, and we will reach FI in our 40s. 🙂

5. Do you feel deprived?  Do you feel like you are sacrificing and missing out on life?  

Not at all! This is one of my biggest pet peeves when people complain about the FI movement. They assume that we live sad, deprived lives. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Like most FI seekers, we choose to cut back on what we don’t value and spend more on things that we do.

For example, my husband and I cut back on cable TV, cell phone plans, and luxury items so that we can splurge on food, travel, and other things we enjoy. However, I will say we’ve sacrificed something—but it’s not what you might expect.

What we’ve sacrificed is FI in our 30s. We made this conscious choice so that one of us (me) could be at home full-time to raise our kids. This not only doesn’t feel like a sacrifice to us, but it’s actually given us a fuller, happier life.

6. How would you say your mindset has shifted throughout your FI journey?

When I first discovered FI, I wanted to reach our number ASAP. I drove myself and my husband crazy, trying to cut back and optimize every last thing. As you can imagine, that was neither a sustainable nor healthy mindset.

I realized that I needed to balance my drive to succeed with our need to live a happy, fulfilling life throughout the journey. Nowadays, I follow the Slow FI mindset—where the journey to FI is as remarkable as the destination.

7. What do you spend your money on and what dont you spend your money on? What brings you happiness and joy? How much money do these things cost?

As previously mentioned, we don’t spend money on things we don’t value, such as fancy clothing or expensive cell phone plans. However, there are three things that we happily spend more on: travel, groceries, and eating out.

Here’s why:

  • Travel

At 12 and 15, our kids are getting close to the age where they’ll be too busy (or unwilling) to travel with us. They’re also at perfect ages to appreciate and handle international travel. That’s why we take advantage of every opportunity to travel with them now (even though it’s so expensive)! We very much look forward to travelling again, once it’s safe to do so.

  • Groceries

While we buy most groceries in bulk and on sale, we’ll happily spend extra on things like nice cheese, good bread, or fun/unique/better ingredients. We’re HUGE foodies, so this extra spending brings us a lot of happiness.

  • Eating out

Eating out is one of our favourite things to spend money on. However, it can get really expensive, so we try to be mindful about it. To do this, we try to eat out for enjoyment and the experience—not just for convenience or sustenance.

8. Do you use a budget?  Do you track your expenses? Do you track your net worth? If so, how often do you update these?

We have never used a budget in the traditional sense, where we have set amounts that we try to spend within. That’s because we’ve always had an intuitive sense of how much we spend and haven’t had issues with overspending.

However, I’m downright obsessive when it comes to tracking our expenses and net worth! Every two weeks, I look forward to reconciling all our transactions in YNAB. And every month, I can’t wait to update our investment numbers in Excel. (Yes, I’m a total money nerd.)

9. As a FIRE member living in Canada, are there any pros to living in Canada specifically that have helped you along your journey?  Conversely, any cons? 

I have to start this answer by saying how much Courts influenced my opinion on FIRE in Canada. She sings the praises of Canada so much that Ive come to fully appreciate the advantages we have. 🙂

One specific pro that benefits our FIRE journey is being able to roll over unused contribution room in our RRSPs and TFSAs. (In comparison: in the US, unused 401k and Roth IRA contribution room is wiped out every year.)

In our younger years, my husband and I didn’t earn enough to max out our RRSPs and TFSAs. But once I discovered FIRE in 2014 and took charge of our investing, it was very helpful to have all that contribution room to work with!

Another pro to living in Canada is the favourable tax rate for all capital gains. (Unlike in the US, there’s no differentiation between short and long-term capital gains.) While this doesn’t affect most of our investments since we’re long-term, buy-and-hold investors, it does give us an advantage when it comes to my husband’s stock options.

That’s because we always try to sell his stock options immediately, to avoid being overly invested in one stock. It’s helpful that we don’t have to hold onto these stock options just to qualify for a more-favourable tax rate.

As for the cons of living in Canada, I started coming up with a list of long-believed gripes. But after doing some research, I found none of them were actually true! For example:

  • High income taxes. (Nope—our taxes are average when compared to other developed nations).
  • Lower salaries. (Also not true—we’re lower compared to the US, but not when compared to other countries.)
  • High cost of living in major cities. (This isn’t unique to Canada—it’s the same in all countries.)
  • Can’t deduct mortgage interest. (Again, nope—the Smith Manoeuvre allows us to do this.)

Myths aside, I can name a couple of areas where Canadians are at a disadvantage. For one, it’s very difficult to get to zero (or even close to zero) in income taxes. (I know you can if you’re heavily invested in Canadian dividend stocks. But I wouldn’t invest in such an undiversified way, so it’s not really an option.)

Another con of living in Canada is our higher grocery costs. It always shocks me to hear of American families (with kids) who spend only $300–$400 per month on their groceries. I think we’d only be able to achieve that if we were vegans with tiny appetites!

10. What would you say are some differences that youve encountered compared to many of the American based FIRE bloggers out there?

Based on the American FIRE blogs I follow, I feel that FIRE is far more politicized in the US than in Canada. This isn’t just based on the current election turbulence, but something I’ve noticed all along. (Note: this isn’t a criticism—just an observation.)

It seems a lot of it has to do with the healthcare system and how dependent it is on who’s in power. But, seeing as major changes to health insurance could jeopardize a FIRE-seeker’s plans, I can see why a FIRE blog may need to wade into politics from time to time.

Another hot-button topic that’s not nearly as much of an issue in Canada is the cost of higher education. It’s breathtaking how much some schools can cost and how large student loans can get. (But I find it inspiring to hear of FIRE community members who find creative ways to get around high education costs.)

It’s not all bad though—there’s also a lot to envy in the US. My jaw drops when I read about the high incomes and/or low expenses many Americans are able to achieve. We just don’t see those extremes here in Canada (and certainly not both at once)!

I also marvel at the seemingly-endless supply of cheap, high-ROI real estate. Somehow, the US has an abundance of real estate that easily meets the 1% rule (and then some)! In Canada, these kinds of deals are few and far between.

11. As a parent pursuing FIRE, have you found that having a child has greatly delayed your timeline to FIRE?  On average, how much money have you spent on your child per year?  What were some of the bigger costs that were worth it and what were some of the bigger costs that were not worth it?

Our kids have definitely delayed our timeline to FIRE. But it’s not so much that they cost a lot of money (they don’t) but more so that we lost my income when I chose to stay at home with them. My best guess is that this decision delayed our timeline to FIRE by a decade.

On average, we spend just under $4,000 per child, per year (not including vacation expenses). My boys are currently 12 and 15, and this is the breakdown of how much we spend on them (per child):

  • Groceries: $1,500
  • Eating out: $600
  • Clothing: $200
  • School fees: $300
  • Activities/Sports: $500
  • Entertainment: $600
  • Gifts: $200
  • TOTAL: $3,900

I can honestly say that  all our costs, big or small, were worth it for our kids. We regret none of it because we spent every dollar on them mindfully and purposefully. However, I do think we’d have regrets if we’d spent on our children in an effort to keep up with their friends.

Things like the latest gadgets, cell phone plans, and expensive summer camps are all the norm in their peer group. These things are of value to some families, but not to us. If we’d indulged our kids in order to be like everyone else, we’d definitely have a list of kid spending that we felt was not worth it.

12. Do you have an RESP opened up for your children?  Are you planning to contribute towards their post-secondary education?

Definitely—we set up their RESPs almost as soon as we brought them home from the hospital!

We’re very fortunate that my parents have helped to fund half of our kids’ RESP contributions from day one. My parents didn’t have the opportunity to attend post-secondary, so it was very important to them that we and our kids had that chance.

My parents’ contributions, along with ours, have allowed us to max out our kids’ RESPs and receive 100% of their grant money every year. At ages 12 and 15, we already have more than enough to fund 4-year degrees for each of them.

By the time they graduate from high school, we should have enough to cover just about any educational path they choose. However, if they end up short, we will help out, while also encouraging them to work during the summers and apply for scholarships.

13. With the cost of living in BC (Vancouver specifically) being so high, would you ever consider moving to a lower cost of living area?  If so, where would it be?

Court and I have discussed this a number of times, so she already knows my answer! I’d love to move to a lower cost of living area, but it’s unlikely that we ever would. The biggest reason? We have a large and tight-knit family and we’d miss them too much.

I’m also a Vancouver girl through and through—I love this city! No matter where in the world I find myself, I always yearn to come home. But just for fun, if we were to move, here are some of the places that would be high on my list:

  • Victoria, BC (one of my favourite BC cities).
  • Kelowna, BC (one of my other favourite BC cities).
  • Near Calgary, AB (where Court lives—she’s sold me)!
  • Edmonton, AB (we really liked it when we visited in 2018).
  • Tokyo, Japan (definitely not cheaper, but we’d love to live there).
  • Cyclocroft, Colorado (imagine if it were real)!

14. As a Canadian pursuing FIRE, what are your post-FIRE thoughts/plans regarding health coverage?  As a reference, what do you currently pay annually or monthly for health-related costs? What do you estimate your post-FIRE health costs to be per year?

Currently, my husband’s extended health plan covers almost all our costs (it’s an excellent plan). Because his plan is so comprehensive, we have very few out-of-pocket costs right now. (On average, it’s under $500 per year.)

Post-FIRE, our financial planner has included $2,000/year in our financial plan to cover healthcare expenses. This should be enough to pay for things like dental care, eye care, and prescription medications.

As far as how we’ll pay for these expenses (insurance or out of pocket) I was leaning towards paying out of pocket. However, we recently recorded a podcast where we discussed extended health plans with a financial planner.

She reminded us that there are situations where unexpected drug costs could be catastrophic for a retiree. This recently happened to a close family member of ours who suddenly found themselves needing to spend $400 per month on a specific medication for the rest of their life.

This really hit home for us, so I’ll likely be looking into an extended health plan before my husband quits his job.

15. What is your investment strategy? Do you invest in mutual funds, index funds, dividend growth stocks, real estate, other businesses, etc.?  Has your investment strategy changed over the years?

Our current investment strategy uses an index investing approach. Our investments are managed by an investment manager, who is overseen by our financial planner.

My strategy has evolved a lot over the years. When I started investing in 1999, all my investing knowledge was from my mom, who worked at a bank. At the time, the best that she and I knew to invest in was Canadian bank stocks and expensive mutual funds.

However, despite the high expenses and lack of diversification, I still managed to do okay with my investments. That was largely because I was 100% in equities and bought shares on sale during and after the Dot-com crash.

In 2014, I discovered the Canadian Couch Potato strategy and became a DIY investor. I sold off my bank stocks and mutual funds and switched to low-cost index ETFs. From the start, I opted to invest in US-listed ETFs and use Norbert’s Gambit to exchange our money. (We had enough invested to make the extra hassles worth it.)

In 2017, I did a lot of research to see if real estate investing was right for me. Unfortunately, I couldn’t make the numbers work, so I scrapped that idea. I also looked into investing in mortgages through my RRSP (which the FI Garage discussed on their show) but decided to keep things simple and stuck with index ETFs.

In 2018, we started working with our financial planner and moved our investments to one of his investment managers. He invests our money using an index-like approach, balanced between Canada, US and international.

We’re still invested this way today, and couldn’t be happier. Initially, I had a really hard time letting go of DIY investing. But nearly three years later, I very much appreciate the added value and time savings from having our money professionally managed.

16. If you could go back in time and change things, what would you have done differently?

I would’ve taken charge of our investments a lot earlier—from day one. I also would’ve started the Smith Manoeuvre as soon as we bought our first home. If I had done these two things, we would’ve easily reached FI in our 30s!

I try not to cry too much when I think of all the potential I let slip away in those early years! That’s why I do my best to encourage new investors (especially young ones) to get educated, then just get started.

17. Has discovering financial independence changed how you view your job and life overall?

Definitely—I’m grateful everyday for my ‘job’ of being a stay-at-home mom. But if we hadn’t made FI-friendly choices all along our path (even before we discovered FI) we wouldn’t have been able to afford this privilege.

For my husband, discovering FI has helped him to realize how much he actually enjoys his job. (So much so, that he plans to continue working even when he no longer needs the paycheque.) I don’t think he’d have that clarity if not for all the FI conversations we’ve had.

Discovering FI has also changed how I view my husband’s job. I’m so grateful for the amazing job he has and how much it has benefited us. It’s because of his job and his company that we’re where we are today.

As for how FI has changed my view on life, the biggest change is that I’m way more intentional with all our life decisions. Having a FI mindset has helped me to really know what’s important to us (financial and time freedom) and what’s not (a bigger house or luxury cars).

18. Do you take advantage of tax-advantaged accounts offered to you?  If so, which ones and how so? Do you have a game plan to be able to withdraw from these funds early without getting hit with a penalty?

We max out our RRSPs, TFSAs, and RESPs every year. My husband contributes a portion of his salary through his group RRSP to get the maximum employer match. The rest of our RRSP contributions are made through our investment manager.

We take advantage of income splitting by putting all my husband’s contributions into my spousal RRSPs. (For those who aren’t familiar with spousal RRSPs: all the contributions are deductible from my husband’s income, but withdrawals will be taxed in my hands.)

As far as a withdrawal gameplan, I rely on our financial planner to help us optimize that. This is my understanding of what he’s planned for us:

  • We’ll try to keep our taxable income in the lowest federal tax bracket—$48,535 or less per person (as of December 2020).
  • We’ll withdraw from our RRSPs until we turn 60.
  • When we start taking CPP (which is taxable) we’ll adjust our RRSP withdrawals to keep our taxable income in the lowest tax bracket.
  • When we start receiving OAS at 65, we’ll adjust our RRSP withdrawals again.
  • If we need extra income, we’ll withdraw from our non-registered accounts and TFSAs.
  • After withdrawing what we need to spend each year, we may still have room in our tax bracket. If this is the case, we’ll withdraw more from our RRSPs—up to the max of the tax bracket, which is $48,535.
  • This means we’ll pay the lowest level of tax on most of our RRSP withdrawals. It also helps us to minimize what’s left in our RRSPs when it’s time to convert to RRIFs (when we’ll be forced to take minimum withdrawals).
  • If we have excess income, we’ll invest it in our TFSAs first and then our non-registered accounts.

To be honest, I find the math behind optimizing withdrawals to be very complex! This is when I think a financial planner can offer a lot of value. Even if you only engage one to help you with this stage of your financial planning, I think it’s worth every penny.

Some extra notes on withdrawals

  • Canadians have a huge advantage when withdrawing from our retirement accounts. Unlike 401ks and Roth IRAs in the US, we can withdraw from our RRSPs and TFSAs penalty-free at any time!
  • Some people erroneously believe that the withholding tax you owe when withdrawing from your RRSPs is a penalty or extra tax. It’s not! It’s just a portion of what you’d have to pay in taxes anyway. (Instead of letting you wait until tax time to pay it, the Canadian government prefers to take some right away.)

19. Where do you see yourself in the next year, 5 years, 10 years?

Things will largely be the same for us in the next year and the next five years. We plan to continue working towards FI, with a Slow FI mindset. That means we’ll prioritize our enjoyment of the journey to FI, rather than focus on getting there as quickly as possible.

In 10 years, we’ll definitely have reached FI—hooray! But my husband loves his job and company, so he’ll likely continue to work. (However, if possible, he may scale back to a part-time position to have more time for hobbies and volunteering.)

As for me, our boys will be 25 and 22 by then. They’ll likely still be living at home, but largely living their own lives. That means my job as a stay-at-home mom will be mostly obsolete!

While I’m already feeling sad about that, the bright side is I’ll finally have more time to myself. I’d love to still be blogging and podcasting, and I also plan to volunteer for organizations that are near and dear to my heart.

Additionally, my husband and I plan to do a lot more traveling! I’d love to start a bucket list and work through our dream destinations one at a time. I can’t wait!

20. Have you come out of the FIRE closet yet? Meaning, do your friends, family, co-workers etc. know about your financial independence goals?  If so, how did you bring it up and what were their reactions? If not, why not? Why do you struggle with this conversation and why do you feel that money such a taboo topic?

Court and I are opposites here! My entire family knows about my blog and my FIRE journey, but most of our friends and coworkers don’t know a thing.

I was very comfortable coming out of the FIRE closet with my family because we’re all frugal, value-oriented, and careful with our money. Like me, they quickly and easily took to the FI message because it aligns well with how we already live our lives.

With friends and my husband’s co-workers, it’s a different story. I’m nervous about their reactions to FIRE, so have not revealed it to many of them. This was a big reason why I initially chose to be anonymous on my blog.

However, I outed myself earlier this year and am no longer anonymous. Since then, I’ve mustered up the courage to reveal my blog to a few close friends. The reaction has been supportive, but so far, no one’s been interested in learning more about FIRE! That’s too bad, but not surprising—FIRE still isn’t quite mainstream.

Regarding the taboo of money: despite feeling fully comfortable discussing money with my family, it doesn’t seem appropriate to do that with friends. That’s because we all come from different backgrounds, with different goals and values.

It can be hard to discuss money without coming off as preachy, judgey, or out of touch. As someone who dislikes conflict and uncomfortable conversations, I’d prefer to allow others to come to me with questions, rather than broach the subject myself!

21. What pieces of advice would you suggest to someone who is just starting out or someone who is working toward reaching financial independence?

What a great question! As someone who dove a little too hard and fast into FI, I definitely have some advice to share:

Pace yourself: FI is a marathon, not a sprint. You’ll be happier, and your motivation and energy will be more sustainable if you can remember this right from the start. I highly suggest that you get acquainted with Slow FI, and follow that mindset in your FI journey.

Take it one step at a time: it can be very overwhelming when you see how much there is to learn and implement. Try to break the tasks into smaller steps, prioritize them, then take on one or two at a time. (And keep reminding yourself of point #1 above!)

Follow the FI bloggers/podcasters who you most relate to: this will help you find your own path to FI, and help make the path a little clearer. If you try to follow everyone, you’ll just get confused, frustrated, and overloaded. Stick with a handful of favourite FI content creators, then when you’re ready for more, branch out from there.

Get clear on your values: they will serve as your North Star as you navigate the sometimes-bumpy path to FI. When faced with a difficult decision or setback, go back to your values. They will put you back on the right path and lead you to what you truly want and need.

22. What has been your greatest accomplishment to date?

This isn’t directly related to FI, but FI has, without a doubt, contributed to this accomplishment… and that would be raising my kids to be the best humans they can be.

At 12 and 15, they’re still young and have a lot of growing left to do. But I can already see they’re on a good path. The most important characteristic I’ve tried to foster in them is resilience, and I see that in them time and again.

With resilience, they’ll be able to get through anything life throws at them. And they’ll be able to do it on their own, while also knowing that it’s okay to ask for help.

FI has contributed to this accomplishment by giving me the freedom and privilege to have a lot of time with my kids. Just being on the FI path has given us so many life benefits—this is just one.

23. Are there any books, blogs, or podcasts that you would recommend for our readers to check out?

I have so many recommendations! In fact, I have too many to list in one place, so I decided to create a curated resource to share them all. It’s called FI School—a free FI ‘curriculum’ to share the best FI content on the internet. Whether you’re a FI newbie or veteran, it’s an easy way to learn about and share the FI message!

24. How can people get in contact with you?

I love connecting with others who are interested in FI! Feel free to leave a comment here, or find me on my blog, Eat Sleep Breathe FI, on TwitterFacebook, or Instagram. You can also find me on my podcast, Explore FI Canada. (You’ll also find Court there—she’s been on our show multiple times!)

25. Anything else youd like to share?

I’d like to thank Court for giving me this opportunity to share my story with her followers, and for her patience as I worked on this interview! She and Nic have been such an inspiration to me, even as I’ve been well on my way to FI. I’ve gained so much from their constant optimism, praise for Canada, and clever FI hacks.


Talk about attention to detail!  SO much good info in this interview!  Let’s dig into our highlights:

  • It’s crazy that in 2014 they were at the 20% mark and then between 2014-2018 after discovering FI and Mr Money Mustache, boom, they became 70% FI.  Their income likely didn’t change too much over those years vs previous years, but they learned the importance of fees, diversification, and the mindset shift.
  • Surprise, surprise… Chrissy does NOT feel deprived. “We choose to cut back on what we don’t value and spend more on things that we do”.  Aka valusits.  “Sacrificing” not reaching FI in their 30s to spend more time together as a family is definitely not a sacrifice to me!
  • Similar to Chrissy, we do not budget either but we do track our expenses.  It’s all about awareness of your spending habits.
  • Canadians, do you believe us now when we say Canada is an early retirees dream? I’d counter Chrissy’s argument on it being very difficult to get zero/low-income taxes.  Depending on your withdrawal amount and which accounts the funds you’re withdrawing from are located, it’s possible for a couple to withdraw $40,000/year and pay $0 in taxes thanks to capital gains favorable tax brackets (not just Canadian dividend stocks).  I think this warrants a future blog post further digging into some examples.  Food costs, on the other hand, yes are definitely higher here than in the States.
  • Healthcare and post-secondary education are major “FIRE burners” for our US friends but thankfully neither of those highly talked about topics are a big concern to Canadians.
  • Real Estate is definitely a different beast here.  I too have not found a property that meets the 1% rule (not that I’m aggressively looking).  Compare this to our townhouse in FL that we purchased for $169,000 and rented out for $2,220/month (1.3%!).
  • As a parent to a hopeful little second-generation FI nugget, I truly appreciate all the details Chrissy provided in her breakdown of kid-related costs.  We’re estimating $3,600/child/year in our post-FIRE calculations for everything besides RESP and travel which really is not far off from Chrissy’s $3,900 figure.  We don’t eat out nearly as much as Chrissy’s family so I think we can realistically maintain this estimate over the years.
  • Chrissy is in a very nice set up to be able to reach FI in a high cost of living area.  This gives her family leverage to move to a lower cost of living area later on (aka pretty much anywhere else in the world), if they wish, and it will lower their withdrawal rate.  This is similar to Christina and Amon from Our Rich Journey who reached FI based off their expenses in high-cost San Fran and now are living a glorious life in Portugal instead.  This is definitely not necessary but I’m sure it’s a great feeling for them to have this as a backup just in case.
  • I too listened to the health care podcast episode Chrissy mentioned and it made me reconsider our post-FIRE health plans.
  • Chrissy is one of the few FIRE freaks I know that uses an advisor.  This shows that again that there is no cookie-cutter way to FI.  They are gaining valuable experience from their advisor and can justify the fees.  Many FIRE folks tout being DIY investors, which is great, but it doesn’t mean it’s the only route!
  • I love Chrissy’s response to how discovering FI has changed her outlook on many facets of life.
  • Our withdrawal strategy is very similar to Chrissy’s, except you know we have DOUBLE the amount of accounts to have to deal with since we have US accounts too.  We’ll be writing a post in 2021 with our thoughts on our withdrawal strategy.
  • Fantastic advice!  I’m always stunned at how well all our interviewees respond to this question.
  • Seeing your kids grow up to be the best version of themselves has to be one of the best feelings for parents.
  • If you have never read through Chrissy’s FI School, we HIGHLY recommend this!!

Thanks again Chrissy for being a part of our FIRE Community Guest Interview Series. Amazing responses that clearly took a ton of time to curate.  In next month’s interview, we jump over across the world to a sustainably-focused Australian couple well on their way to FI.

Did you enjoy this interview? Any additional questions for Chrissy? Thanks for tuning in and check back next month for the next interview.

We love highlighting other members of the FI community. Please contact us if you’d like to be a part of the FIRE Community Guest Interview series and we’ll see if we’re a good fit!

And in case you wanted to read the previous interviews that make up our FIRE Community Guest Interview Series, here you go!

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45 thoughts on “FIRE Community Guest Interview # 12 – Proving Financial Independence Is Possible with Kids in a High Cost Of Living Area”

  1. I’m THRILLED to see my interview go live! You asked some tough, detailed questions, my friend. I hope I answered them properly fully, but if not, let me know—I’m happy to share more details if needed.

    Thanks again for having me on, Court. 🥰

    1. It’s finally out!! Thank YOU Chrissy for putting so much time and effort into this interview. I hope it helps many people out there 🙏

  2. What an interesting interview! I absolutely love the slow FI mindset, too. And I also use a financial advisor. It’s really rare to see that in the FI community, It’s nice to see I’m not the only one. I’m curious to know, Chrissy, if you don’t mind sharing, the fees you pay?

    1. Hi Danielle,

      Thanks for reading and for leaving a comment! I pay about 1% to my financial planner and 1-1.5% to the investment manager for a total of 2-2.5% in fees.

      That sounds really high, I know! But the fees are mostly offset because:

      – We can deduct a large portion of the fees from our income tax (the fees on our taxable investments are deductible).

      – The taxation, investment and other financial advice we receive saves/makes us thousands per year (and will save us even more once we start to draw down our investments).

      I used to have a hard time letting go of the control and low costs of DIY investing, but I’ve come to love the simplicity and confidence I’ve gained by having professionals oversee things.

      I hope that answers your question! Let me know if you have any others.

      1. Thanks so much for your answer, Chrissy! The fees I pay are about the same, and our financial planner also realy helps us optimize our strategy.

    2. Hey Danielle – sounds like a lot of similarities with your stories! There is definitely no cookie cutter way to FI 🙂

  3. A follow up to that “would you move out of Vancouver” question. I wonder, if your husband was able to work remotely, would you consider moving elsewhere for part of the year? I’ve considered this idea and I think it could work for my family. We also have a lot of extended family nearby, but it would be fun to live a few months out of the year somewhere warmer (and less rainy!). I suppose with kids that’s more difficult, but we imagine renting an AirBnb in Osoyoos or somewhere similar all summer, for example.

    1. Hey Another Loonie! I love your question and the answer is yes, definitely—especially now that our kids are also learning remotely.

      We’re considering this year our test run year—we’ve pulled our kids out of their regular schools (because of COVID) while my husband is also working full-time from home. Continuing this arrangement and traveling somewhere long-term has been a frequent topic of conversation!

      I love your idea of an Airbnb in Osoyoos all summer. That would totally be up for consideration for my family! (So would 6-8 weeks in Japan. 😉) For now, we’re waiting to see how the vaccine rollout happens, then we can start making some decisions.

      Thanks for reading and for the great question!

    2. We’re thinking the same things ourselves Another Loonie. We love the summers here but are looking to escape for the month of March once we are OVER winter. Thinking of spending the month of March outside Canada checking out say Mexico one year, Central America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc. on rotation.

  4. Wow, thank you Court for this great interview with Chrissy. It is great to hear her journey to FI, and the work it takes. Chrissy is right about US FIRE bloggers. Healthcare is a big deal and it is always one thing for FIRE people to have to worry about there. As an American living in as an Expat in another country with national healthcare I do not feel the stress of not having healthcare or the cost that may come with it.

    Sorry, I just went on a bit of rant. This was a great interview. I am so glad to learn more about Chrissy.

    1. Hi Steve,

      Ha ha, if that’s you ranting, then I’m not worried about getting into debates with you—you’re so polite! Everything you said was fair and very well-put.

      I’ve heard about the wonders of Taiwan’s healthcare system. It sounds amazing. It definitely puts Canada’s to shame.

      It’s too bad healthcare is such an issue in the US. I hope we’ll see some workable solutions soon as it affects the lives of so many.

      Thanks for the comment!

    2. No need to thank me Steve, this was ALL Chrissy 🙂

      As a dual US/Canadian citizen I find it so comical when Canadians begin to complain about the health care system up here. It’s SO good up here in comparison.

      Being a US expat is definitely a way to escape the US system once you FIRE! Where did you end up moving to?

  5. Awesome interview Court!

    Inspiring how Chrissy is paving her way forward on her path to FIRE. It’s also nice to see how she manages the “living your best” life approach, it’s not just about numbers, but about living a life according to your dreams. Delaying FIRE a few years in order to enjoy life more in the here and now is exactly what needs to be preached more. Even though a new year has started, we never know if we all get those new 365 days paid in full…

    Great interview!

    Thanks to both of you.

    Cheers,
    Matt

    1. Thanks Matt and very well said! The journey is just as important as reaching your FIRE number! Just because you’ve reached FI does not mean you will magically become happier. You have to design that happy life along the way 🙂 Thanks for reading and commenting!

    1. Thanks Maria – always trying to squeeze out as much info in these interviews so that those familiar with the interviewee still get something out of it!

  6. Slow FI sounds like a great way to reach FI. It should be much easier for individuals and families to adopt than the extreme FIRE that often makes media headlines. Finding FIRE late in our lives resulted in us pursuing Panic FIRE (can I copyright that phrase?). It was exhausting!

    Chrissy, your podcast on the topic of health plans convinced us to continue with our health plan into retirement vs. pay out-of-pocket. Our plan’s premium is $200/month. This gives us 80% coverage on prescription medications, with the option to switch to an unlimited cap for about $60/month extra. The plan also covers, (to an extent), dental, vision, physio and other therapies. Our health is good, so we are paying out much more than we claim back, but as per the podcast, things can change quickly and the costs go through the roof – I didn’t realize just how many things are not covered by the government. Thank you.

    1. Ha ha, Panic FIRE—that’s a new one! I find late starter stories very inspiring and would love to hear more of yours! If you’d consider being interviewed, my friend LateStarterFIRE in Australia runs an interview series that focuses on those who start their FIRE journeys in their 40s or later. She’s always looking for more interviewees—especially from Canada. 😉

      I’m always grateful for your support of my blog and podcast. I love hearing that our listeners find our content helpful! $200/month for your plan sounds like a reasonable amount. It’s good to know as we’ll have to consider this as we near FIRE. Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful comment!

    2. Panic FIRE hahah I like that Bob!!

      Yes, SlowFI has been gaining popularity over the past few years. I still believe maintaining a 50+% savings rate is the goal but it’s very important to make sure you’re living a happy and fulfilling life along the way.

      That podcast episode got us thinking as well. At first my thought was to go uninsured once I leave work, but those one off events sure are scary (and totally unpredictable)!

      As always, thanks for tuning in Bob 🙂

  7. With the fact that I chat with the both of you (Court & Chrissy) so much as well as read all of your content this was mostly just a recap. I really enjoyed it and appreciate you both taking the time to share this with everyone.

    I have cancelled everything post FIRE, no health plans and because my kids are now adults no life insurance either. I would rather see those monthly fees staying in my investment accounts and earning money for me. If you FIRE and have young kids I suggest keeping both but if you don’t, well that is a crazy amount of money to spend each month in Canada where we have safety nets.

    I still love the frugal FI life so I’m at the other end of the spectrum from Chrissy but love how they spend their time as a family.

    Cheers ~ Chris

    1. Hi Chris—thanks for reading through the interview, despite knowing most of it already!

      I always enjoy learning more about how you manage your finances and approach FIRE. While we’re at different ends of the spectrum in some areas, in others we’re similar. I’ll be looking to your example one day when we begin our drawdown phase.

      I actually can’t wait to cancel our life insurance—as soon as we reach FIRE, it’s gone! The health plan will be less easy of a decision. Being the “Optimizer Extraordinaire” that I am, it’ll be hard for me to pay into a plan ‘just in case’. Still, we’ll no doubt weigh the options very carefully.

      Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience and knowledge. 🙂

    2. As always, thanks for chiming in Chris. If you’re looking for something to do indoors during these cooler winter months I’ve got some questions for ya 😉

      I’m right there with ya for the no life insurance and I was there too with the health insurance. However, those one-off totally unexpected events COULD happen (even though we all think we are invincible) and the peace of mind knowing we will be covered is likely worth it for us to get some coverage in our post FIRE world.

    1. Thanks Money Mechanic – great responses back from Chrissy. Hahah yes, let’s get that name going! I will laugh out loud if you use it on a podcast episode!

  8. Wonderful interview – thanks for sharing with us. I’ve been following Chrissy’s journey, and she’s amazing. I am sure this is no surprise, eh?

    The “pace yourself” advice is a must for everyone who wants to achieve FIRE. It takes time, a lot of work and research. However, as soon as you realize that you can change/adjust the plan towards financial independence, things get better – you can even sleep better 🙂

    1. You’re always too kind Gean. Thank you for the lovely comment.

      Pacing myself was one of the hardest things to get used in my FIRE journey. I still struggle with it at times, but I’m definitely happier when I calm down and just enjoy the journey.

    2. No surprise indeed Gean – she’s fantastic!!

      Yes, understanding that you need to enjoy the journey along the way is key! Being flexible is so important too. Thank you for reading! 🥰

  9. Court – thank you for another great interview. Looking forward to your withdrawal strategy post as I am in the same boat with US (IRA, Roth IRA) and Canadian (RRSP, TFSA, RESP, Non-Registered) Accounts.

    Chrissy – congratulations on your FI journey. Having lived in the US (Midwest) for eight years and now in Canada (Metro Vancouver) for four years, I can attest to the differences you highlighted.

    I am surprised with the 2.5% (investment management + financial planning fee). I work with a fee-only financial planner and agree that professional advice is valuable. But, we pay a flat fee per hour for one or two meetings every year.

    Just curious – if you are going to invest in index funds why not take a fee-only financial planning approach?

    1. Hi Shashi,

      Thanks for reading and for the lovely comment. You made my day!

      As for your question: you make a very valid point. I know, it goes against everything we’ve been taught in the FIRE community, right? DIY indexing is best—why pay someone to do it for you?

      For me, it started when I wanted help to implement my leveraged investing strategy (aka the Smith Manoeuvre). I didn’t feel confident enough in my knowledge to invest and handle the taxation for such a large sum of borrowed money on my own.

      After A LOT of research and consideration, I chose my financial planner for his experience, expertise, and unconventional outlook on investing and money management.

      He’s a former CGA and a CFP, so he fully understands taxation AND investing and how to best optimize both. He also knows the Smith Manoeuvre inside-out—there’s no one else like him out there!

      He more than earns his fees back in the value he returns to us—in his service, taxes we save, investment gains, knowledge he shares with me, and so much more.

      It was admittedly difficult for me to hand over the reins to someone else (I loved being a DIY investor) but I’ve come to very much appreciate having professionals manage my money.

      I see the value in it in so many ways and couldn’t be happier with the service and investment performance.

      I hope that explains my decision. I know it’s not for everyone, but I only made the choice after a lot of research and thought. It’s been more than three years since we started working with our planner and we have zero regrets. 🙂

      1. Chrissy – thank you for the detailed response. Smith Manoeuvre is indeed complicated and having an experienced financial planner would be valuable.

        Thank you for sharing your story.

    2. Thank you Shashi for this comment! Chrissy spent a ton of time on this! Hoping to get our withdrawal strategy post out in the next few months! Oh what fun it is to have so many accounts with differing rules! 🙂

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  13. >>She reminded us that there are situations where unexpected drug costs could be catastrophic for a retiree. This recently happened to a close family member of ours who suddenly found themselves needing to spend $400 per month on a specific medication for the rest of their life.

    I don’t know the details of how this works in other provinces, but in Ontario, households with prescription expenses above 4% of their income can get government coverage: each quarter you pay out of pocket for prescriptions until you hit that 4% figure, and then the program kicks in and pays for the rest of your prescriptions that quarter. And that’s for people between the ages of 25 and 65: I gather prescription coverage is even better outside that age range.

    I do think it’s problematic that you have to explicitly apply for this (really they should just automatically sign everyone up for it as part of OHIP, with people with low-to-moderate prescription expenses simply never meeting their deductible), but at least it is there if you know to look for it. My household was on it for a while when we were making very little, and it was very helpful. We won’t hesitate to reapply if our expenses rise or our income falls, and I take comfort in knowing it’s there if anything happens to make us qualify again.

    1. Thank you Brin for sharing this info, good to know! I agree, it’s a shame you have to know about this and apply for it but like you said at least it does exist!

    2. Hi Brin, sorry I didn’t see this comment until now!

      You bring up an excellent point. We have Fair Pharmacare in BC where you have to reach a certain amount before they start paying 70%, then another amount when they start paying 100%.

      It’s great to know this exists, but you’re right that it’s a shame you have to know about it and apply for it! Thanks for sharing. This is important info that more people need to know about.

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