FIRE Community Guest Interview #6: From High School Drop Out to Retired at 35

Well FImily it’s that time of the year for the next installment of the FIRE Community Interview Series!

For anyone new here, this interview series will cover people within the FIRE community who are on their way to becoming financial independent, have already reached financial independence, or who have retired early. If you are reading this and you are financially independent, retired early, or close to reaching these major financial milestones, please reach out to the Modern Fimily! You can check out the previous FIRE Community Guest Interviews here.

I am so excited to have Chad from @gotchadfi on to tackle our interview questions this week. Chad was one of the first FI friends I had actually met in person when he was on one of his many cross country road trips passing through the Calgary area.  He’s a fellow Canadian (residing in Ontario when he’s not out on an adventure) and we met at a coffee shop and chatted until they kicked us out as we stayed until they closed (seriously).  Chad did another cross country road trip, this time in his new Sprinter van with his pup and girlfriend, and we had them come over to our house for a few hours to catch up.  If it’s not obvious, Chad has already FIRE’d and last I heard he was spending some time down in Cuba before having to come back to Canada due to COVID-19.  And I don’t want to ruin the most intriguing part about his story as he will chat about it below (oops I suppose I blew it in the title of this post…).  Chad really is a gem with an incredible mindset and I’m so happy we’ve connected and created a great friendship.

Update: Chad was also featured in MarketWatch as part of their FIRE Starters Series.  Check it out!

I hope you appreciate these responses as much as I do and I hope you gain some knowledge along the way from someone who has already pulled the plug!  If you have any follow up questions or would like to get in touch with this awesome fella, please leave a comment below. Chad, without further ado, take it away!

1. Can you give us a little background of who you are, what you do, and how you became interested in personal finance? How did you discover the idea of financial independence?

I was born and raised in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, the youngest of two children in an middle class family. For the most part, I was your average kid, but I really liked to tinker, to take things apart, figure out how they worked and put them back together again. And since I grew up during the tech boom, naturally, I gravitated towards computer technology and entered the field in my late teens. I spent close to two decades in Networking, IT management, and Solution Architecture. While I still love to tinker and my interest in tech has not waned, FIRE has allowed me the opportunity to take a step back and reflect on what it is that I would like to spend my time doing. 

Personal finance was never really something I thought about when I was growing up; I think that’s probably true for most people as the focus in school is on learning math, science and history. But my father instilled prudence in my sister and I from an early age. He was – and still is – handy, with DIY projects the way we did things; so from a young age I learned to fix things and create what I needed where possible, rather than buy and replace. That said, I spent a lot of money on stuff through my late teens and into my early twenties. Saving for the future wasn’t something I considered until I was around 25 or so. I realized that in order to live a fulfilled life, which for me meant spending my time how I wanted to, I’d need to put money away. My father would always say, “Money is for when you’re older” and he couldn’t be more right. So when I began saving, the Million Dollar Journey was one of the first sites that got me started on my path. Seeing what was possible, that someone could simply save, invest, and grow their money over time, that my money could work for me, could make me money and provide me enough to live without needing to work, giving me my time back: I realized I could do the same. I never really considered how long it would take me to achieve FI (I did have a goal to retire by 40); I simply started to put money away, and find ways to grow it, through real estate and the stock market. My father was a real estate agent for the better part of 30 years and taught me to view property ownership as a form of forced savings for the future, enabling me to grow my personal wealth. I purchased my first condo in Toronto when I was about 21, starting my FI journey off before I even really knew it. 

2. As a Canadian who has already reached FI and retired early, did you have an internal battles regarding pulling the plug from your job?  Did you ever feel like you were making the wrong decision?

It was a very difficult decision to pull the plug and quit my job. Though I have been “retired” for about 2 years, I still think about the decision; Was it the right move? Was the timing right? Should I have stayed a few more years? I don’t think anyone is ever really sure about all of the decisions they make, especially those that go against the grain so to speak. But for me, I was at a crossroads; I was spending my time in pursuit of a paycheque, as opposed to the things I wanted out of life. I was lost and struggled with anxiety and depression. I needed to make a change and while it was a difficult decision for me to quit my job, I have no regrets. I am happy with the choices that I have made thus far. Ultimately, each person needs to make the decision that is right for them, but I encourage people to take chances, try something that scares them and be ready to adapt as necessary. 

To me, FI can be summed up by one word – choices. If you can set some money aside, the amount of choices you have begins to grow. Let’s say you spend $50K a year to live; so if you had $50K in the bank, you could live for a year doing the things you wanted to do without any major concerns. Obviously, the money will run out after the year is up, but just this sum can buy you upwards of a year of time to try things out, change jobs, go back to school, anything you’d like to do really. Grow that number to $100K, $500K, or even 1 million, and those choices – and the time to you have – expand further. Again, I think it’s a difficult decision to walk away from a steady job, but if you are working somewhere just for the money, you may experience burn out and forget about who you are and why you are doing what you are doing. 

That said, and this is something I had not anticipated, FI can be quite lonely. Your friends and family will probably think you are crazy; that was my experience. But I’m grateful to be in the position I am in today, able to make the choices I want, not feeling stuck doing something I do not love doing. I signed up for a bunch of FI Retreats through www.CampFI.org (and still attend these) that truly gave me more confidence around my choices. I would recommend others do the same. These types of events have introduced me to like minded folks and that loneliness of the journey vanished. 

3. To help put things into context, if you are comfortable sharing some numbers, what was your savings rate, FIRE number, net worth, salary, how many hours a week did you work, etc.?  How long have you been working towards financial independence and where are you today? 

So, I knew that for the past decade or so, I had been spending $40 – 50K a year and therefore, would need to generate that amount of money to live my current lifestyle. The usual 4% rule dictated that I needed around 1 million to generate that kind of income and so that is where I am today. My savings rate for the last 7 to 10 years was between 50-80%, and I worked your typical 40+ hours a week. 

4. Do you feel deprived?  Do you feel like you are sacrificing and missing out on life?  How would you say your mindset has shifted throughout your FI journey?

I do not feel deprived, nor do I feel that I am missing out on anything because of FI. I’d actually say the opposite; again, FI provides me with opportunities, choice. I think though that the idea of FI meaning sacrifice is a common misconception. When I first spoke to some of my friends about it, they asked me what I was giving up – not buying or doing – because of my efforts towards FI, when in fact I’d been able to travel the world, buy the things I wanted and truly enjoy life. 

That all said, I think it’s important to keep in mind that buying “stuff” doesn’t buy happiness. Love, laughter, family and friends do. A big house, luxury car, expensive clothing etc., are all nice to some extent for sure. But how many people have their basements full of stuff they thought they wanted or liked only to have it sit in a box somewhere? 

5. What do you spend your money on and what don’t you spend your money on? What brings you happiness and joy? How much money do these things cost?

I have spent a long time thinking about this one, and for me, I spend my money where I spend my time. For example, like many others, my work required that I spend the majority of my day sitting at a desk. I wanted a comfortable chair, that would ergonomically respond to my body; I did some research and decided on a Herman Miller. Though a higher end chair, I didn’t need to “break the bank” and buy new, choosing to purchase it from Kijji – an example of how I saved money but still purchased the things I wanted. Typically, I purchase things used, whether it be a car or some gadget. However, there are some things I will buy new, for example, my bed. We spend a third of our lives in bed sleeping so for me, – and remember, I spend my money where I spend my time – it is money well spent! So I bought myself a tempurpedic mattress because they were the most comfortable for me, spending close to $2,000 back when I was 23 or 24. Now you can buy an equivalent “mattress in a box”, from a number of companies for less than $500. I even recently purchased a king size Zinus mattress from Amazon for $400. Money well spent!

As for things I don’t spend money on, I don’t actively track this stuff. There aren’t things that I avoid or anything like that. 

If you take a step back and look at how we spend money its really all about convenience. Literally everything. Don’t want to go to the grocery store to buy food, get take out. Don’t want to cut your grass, hire someone. How about some basic home renovations, say painting, hire someone. I find that its really rewarding to learn new things and do for yourself, in that, you’ll save boatloads of money. Don’t know how to paint? Youtube. Youtube can literally teach you anything you’d like to know. Want to watch a Harvard lecture? Youtube. The internet has opened up a world of possibilities!!

6. Can you share with our readers more about your recent van experience?  What lead to the decision to get the van and where have you taken it so far?  And if you’re comfortable sharing numbers, how much did it cost and how much have you put in for upgrades?

I have always been an adventurer. I grew up going to a cottage each weekend thanks to my father. Having the ability to get away from the hustle and bustle of everyday craziness I call Toronto was and is a gem. So Vanlife/RV’s/Camping has always been something I have loved. Part of my wealth has come from real estate where I would renovate and flip condos or houses. My father taught me everything I know about renovations and such, and this naturally led me into building out my own van the way I wanted. Of course, I could have went into an RV shop and bought a Roadtrek Van or something equivalent for 120k and be set (convenience and expensive!!) or I could look at buying one New/used and build it out myself. I chose the latter. I actually found a really great deal on the truck. It was technically used due to Hymer making changes in Canada to their distribution plant or something, I don’t know the exact specifics. But with that said, I bought a 2018 Ram Promaster high top 159 wheel base brand new all in for $44k. I have planned on putting about $10k into it which will put me up to $55-60k all said and done. I may expand my budget a few thousand for some additional upgrades but I’m happy with it all thus far. 

The van as well, has always been a multi-pronged approach. What I mean by this is that I spend time competing in sheep herding competitions (Thanks FIRE) with my dog Pepper. Going to these events there wasn’t a place to stay, think farmland, so having the ability to have my own place to sleep and live at these events is just incredible. Also, taking road trips around the country you have your home with you, its great. I’ve actually joined a bunch of FI retreats in it too. In addition to this, I have planned on renting out the truck and trying to make a business of it too. So this coming spring I’ll see what I can do about renting it out and helping that pay for the van itself. It has also been my daily driver for the past 6 months too, which some people think I’m crazy to be driving around in! 

The entire build out has been an incredible learning experience and super fun! I love to tinker and build, so this has been a great way to use some of my skills!

7. Do you use a budget?  Do you track your expenses? Do you track your net worth? If so, how often do you update these?

I think tracking your expenses is a key component of FI. Most people are unaware of how much they spend, but there are excellent resources like Mint by Intuit that can help. I have been using it since its launch and have recommended it to all my friends and family. When I first started using it, I probably logged in daily to review, try to understand my spending and make adjustments. I really enjoyed doing it, knowing that my efforts were helping me in my FI journey. These days, I don’t do too much budgeting or tracking, but about once or twice a month, I’ll log in to review. I know that budgets can be boring and even cumbersome, but I’d encourage readers to get Mint setup and tracking their finances. It really doesn’t take much effort and once you have a financial history to reflect on, you can begin your journey towards FI! 

8. As a FIRE member living in Canada, are there any pros to living in Canada specifically that have helped you along your journey?  Conversely, any cons?  

A major pro of living in Canada – and a source of pride for Canadians! – is our universal health care system. I can’t quantify exactly how much the health care I have received over the years has cost but in Canada, total health spending per person, per year averages around $7,068.00 CAD* (approx. $5,300.00 USD), with the range upwards of $19K. I think no matter the amount though, having health care costs covered offers a boost towards FI. All of my FI friends from the US have health care high on their list of expenses, and so of course this impacts their FI journey. 

There are no major cons for me of living in Canada. I love Canada and always will, its a beautiful place. 

*National Health Expenditure Trends, 1975 to 2019, accessed via: https://www.cihi.ca/en/how-do-the-provinces-and-territories-compare

9. What is your investment strategy? Do you invest in mutual funds, index funds, dividend growth stocks, real estate, other businesses, etc.?  Has your investment strategy changed over the years?

My investment strategy hasn’t changed much over the years, with real estate and the stock market being my main income drivers. I have a couple rental properties and am a dividend growth investor – though I recommend index investing to those around me as it offers a simple way for novice investors to enter the market*. With real estate, I think it is important to consider the market you are in; for example, we have been extraordinarily lucky in Toronto, with property values increasing year over year. 

Overall, I think people need to be comfortable and have some understanding of how their investments are contributing (or hindering) their FI journey. 

10. If you could go back in time and change things, what would you have done differently?

Reflecting on my FI journey to date, I think I was overly focused on achieving FI when I should have focused more on nourishing my relationships with family and friends – the source of love, laughter and ultimately, happiness. So if I were to go back in time, I’d spend my time having fun and developing strong relationships. Thankfully, hitting FI at a young age 35 (now I’m 37), gives me the ability to spend time with those that I love. 

Nourish the relationships you really care about. 

11. Has discovering financial independence changed how you viewed your job and life overall? 

Achieving FI has allowed me to reflect on things. Many people have heard that they should follow their dreams or passions and life will be wonderful; I view this a bit differently. If you are able to jump right into a career that you love, awesome, that’s great. However, some people find themselves in positions that pay a fair amount but aren’t overly happy. Well, with FI, you can sock a bunch of money away to allow you to make a choice to change jobs if that is what you are looking for. So FI for me, again, goes back to choices! 

12. Do you take advantage of tax advantaged accounts offered to you?  If so, which ones and how so? Do you have a game plan to be able to withdraw from these funds without getting hit with a penalty?

I do use tax advantaged accounts; in Canada, these include the Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP) and the Tax-Free Savings Account (TFSA). I’d recommend maxing out your contributions towards these account, as best as you can, and putting your money into the lowest fee index funds you can find. It is also important to consider the return on the accounts. For example, the ones provided through work or banking institutions may not necessarily offer the best returns, especially due to high fees. With my last employer, I was able to buy into an employee plan that was matched by the company. Then at the end of the month, I would sell or transfer those shares to my own self-directed accounts, in order to maintain my own control over the funds. So I would advise those who don’t know much about this to read up on self-directed accounts and invest your money the way you’d like. That said, make sure to look into your options before doing any such things or speak with an advisor to ensure you don’t get hit with high fee’s or taxes.

13. Do you have any thoughts/plans to have kids in the future?  If so, what do you estimate your annual child related costs will be each year? Will you be opening & contributing into an RESP for them or do you have other thoughts regarding future child education costs? 

Yes, definitely hoping for 1, maybe 2 kids. As for the plans and annual costs, I’ll have to look towards my FIRE counterparts for some guidance. I have always herd that kids cost $$$ dollars over 18 years, though I don’t understand how. A quick search brings up many articles that say kids can cost from a few thousand to tens of thousands a year. Another post says $10 – 15K per year. So I’m really unsure the true costs… But that being said, I’m “supposed” to be working for another 25 years before I can retire. And we all know that Suzy Orman says you need 10 million to retire. I don’t think there is a simple answer here and I think it really depends on the person and their family goals. 

14. As a Canadian pursuing FIRE, what are your post-FIRE thoughts/plans regarding health coverage?  As a reference, what do you currently pay annually or monthly for health related costs? What do you estimate your post-FIRE health costs to be per year?

This one is new for me as well and caught me a bit off guard! Thankfully, again, medically necessary services are covered by universal health care, while costs associated with drug and dental work require private health insurance. I’ve seen some really great extended coverage for as little as $50 to a few hundred a month. I’ve heard a lot of people say they have great health coverage at their jobs. But few of them have looked at the actual value of those plans. My last position offered 100% coverage on a lot of things and they actually paid for the complete plan which was awesome. Upon looking at the plan costs, it was around $3,500 a year for 2 people. This gave my partner and I some great coverage for dental and other health services which was awesome. Some folks are paying for these types of plans too. So you really have to look at your wants and needs and find what is right for you. 

At my age (37), and with not having the stresses of work, I’m able to work out, eat well, and enjoy life with little stress.  I believe that this overall will keep my health in a better place right off the bat. From my point of view, most of our health concerns are due to over working, over eating, and not getting any exercise. So if you can take better care of yourself then you hopefully won’t need crazy expensive coverage. As I get older I’ll keep a close eye on what I may need here, but I feel pretty secure in Canada with our health plans. 

That said, I have recently had an issue with one of my teeth which ended up requiring a root canal and a crown. All said and done without coverage I was able to get it resolved for $2500 all in.  This has come out of pocket for me, which was a sting, but its all part of life. Thankfully having an emergency fund to pickup such a cost allows me not to worry. 

15. Where do you see yourself in the next year, 5 years, 10 years?

Living life!! When I was 25, I did my long term planning 5-10 years out. But now, my time horizon is much shorter, with my focus being on spending time with loved ones. Over the next year, I’ll also be renovating a house, finishing off the van, competing with my dog, and looking for new opportunities to spread the FI word! 

16. Have you come out of the FIRE closet yet? Meaning, do your friends, family, co-workers etc. know about your financial independence goals?  If so, how did you bring it up and what were their reactions?  If not, why not?  Why do you struggle with this conversation and why do you feel that money such a taboo topic?  

I’ve always told those around me about the ability to invest and grow your nest egg. So FIRE being a more recent term has been another way to explain it to others. So I hadn’t really been hiding anything, all my friends and family know about my journey. With regards to work, I let those folks know, however I would get the glazed eyes and the typical confused look that most people give you. It’s not normal to say you want to retire before 55 or 60, or even 65. That said, retirement is a strange word, because I find myself doing so much more these days than when I was working a full-time job.

I don’t believe I struggle with the topic myself. But I do believe it’s such a difficult thing because we all compare ourselves to others at some level. Who wants to say I can’t afford this or that, or can’t go on vacation because it’s not in the budget. We want to have all of the things and now. Money has always been this taboo thing and it’s so strange to me. Don’t talk to your colleagues about what you make? Why? So the company can keep paying you less than your counterparts? On the flip side, it does suck to know that you make less than those around you. Or, you could use that info to push yourself to make more? There is so much to talk about here! 

17. What pieces of advice would you suggest to someone who is just starting out or someone who is working toward reaching financial independence? 

You have a choice. Sometimes it may not feel like it, but we always do. Set up goals, change your habits, increase your knowledge, and start living the way you want to rather than how you are “supposed” to. I know it’s hard, but you don’t have to keep up with those around you if they are just spendy people. Make intentional choices when it comes to the things that you want. Not what you think others think you need or want.

18. What has been your greatest accomplishment to date?

Given that I am a high school drop-out, I’d say being in the position I am in today is my greatest accomplishment. My next one will be to spread the word about FI, and help those around me achieve the things that they are looking to. 

19. Are there any books, blogs, or podcasts that you would recommend for our readers to check out?

This list is too long. I was never really a reader growing up, but over the past 7 to 10 years I have picked it up quite a bit. I have actually averaged reading and/or listening to around 50-60 books a year. So just to name a few classics and greats! 

Classics

• David Chilton – The Wealthy Barber | The Wealthy Barber Returns
• Robert Kiyosaki – Rich Dad Poor Dad | Secrets of the Rich | Second Chance
• Vicki Robin – Your Money or Your Life

Other greats,

• JL Collins – The Simple Path to Wealth
• David Bach – The Automatic Millionaire
• Sam Walton – Made in America
• MJ Demarco – The Millionaire Fastlane | Unscripted
• Cal Newport – Deep Work

Psychology / Money

• Ray Dalio – Principles
• Stephen R Covery – 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
• Thomas C Corley – Rich Habits: The Daily Success Habits of Wealthy Individuals
• Charles Duhigg – The Power of Habit

Behavior / Economics / Self Help / Others

• Steven Kotler – Stealing Fire
• Seth Godin – Linchpin
• Tony Robins – Money | Unshakeable
• Dan Ariely – Predictably Irrational | Payoff | Dollars and Sense
• Mark Manson – The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

This is by no means an exhaustive list. There are soooooo many to name. So for anyone interested, just let me know the topics you may want to learn more about and chances are I could recommend a few books! 

20. How can people get in contact with you? (if you want to remain anonymous ignore this question) 

You can find me on Instagram @GotChadFI

21. Anything else you’d like to share?

I’m just here to help! I’d love nothing more than to help those around me that are on this extremely exciting and rewarding path!! If there is anything I can do to help, feel free to reach out! 

• I love Chad’s response to question 2. FI sure is all about choices and figuring out who you are and why you are doing what you are doing.  I also appreciate how real Chad is and mentioned how retiring early can be quite lonely.  I think it’s very important to have some post retirement goals and plans to keep you active in your community (be it a FI community or your physical community).
• Surprise, surprise, Chad does not feel deprived and yet he feels the opposite. See the trend?
• In question 5, Chad mentions how there are so many free alternatives to the things we pay for convenience. I totally agree about there being a sense of satisfaction of researching and doing the job yourself instead.  It gives you empowerment and saves you money – win win!
• You have to track your expenses! How can you plan your FI journey if you don’t know what you spend?
• I absolutely love this sentence from question 10: “Reflecting on my FI journey to date, I think I was overly focused on achieving FI when I should have focused more on nourishing my relationships with family and friends – the source of love, laughter and ultimately, happiness.” So incredibly true!  When all is said and done, it’s all about your relationships.
• Ahh the good ole Canadian health care system. I can’t stress how great of the gem this is for those of us in the Canadian FIRE space. I also love this sentence from question 14: “From my point of view, most of our health concerns are due to over working, over eating, and not getting any exercise.” Once you escape your 9-to-5 you have so much more time to focus on health boosting activities.
• I love Chad’s response to question 16. We need to make money less of a taboo topic!
• What a great reading list!

• FIRE Community Guest Interview # 1 – Empowerment Through FIRE
• FIRE Community Guest Interview # 2 – We Quit Our Jobs To Retire Early & Travel The World
• FIRE Community Guest Interview # 3 – Dividend Investor Reached FI By Living An Intentional Life
• FIRE Community Guest Interview #4 – Pursuing FIRE With Multiple Passive Income Streams in Australia
• FIRE Community Guest Interview #5 – Driving to FIRE Through RV Living

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